Pardon Us – We Missed the Logic

by | Jul 17, 2007 | Australian Values, Border Security, Corruption, Democracy, Immigration, Legal, OzPol Values, Values

We’re just a bit confused 

 

Dr Haneef has been charged with recklessly providing resources to a terrorist organisation (to wit, a sim card). The alleged recklessness occurred in the UK. It did not take place in Australia.

There is no suggestion, as far as we can know, that Haneef has broken any law in Australia.

No-one in Britain has yet been found guilty of being a terrorist or part of a “terrorist organisation”.

The British allegations are still ‘allegations’.

The charge against Haneef therefore presumes the British suspects are guilty and that they are, or are part of, a terrorist organisation. 

They may well be, but that is not how the law in both our countries is supposed to work. Australia, in any case, simply cannot, has no authority to, determine the guilt or innocence of a person in a foreign jurisdiction. That is done by courts and juries in the jurisdiction where they are charged. Or can they? It does seem, logically, that they have indeed predetermined that guilt given the charge against Haneef.

This presumption of guilt then would/will prejudice the trial of Haneef’s cousin to whom he gave the sim card. Could Haneef’s cousin conceivably claim the impossibility of a fair trial on the basis of the charges against Haneef?

And what then, or what if the British suspects are simply found not guilty? Haneef could not then be found to have provided resources to a terrorist organisation. (And before you say “that’s not going to happen, of course they are guilty”, remember that you are not entitled to presume that, nor to act on the presumption of guilt.)

The correct course of action after Haneef’s interrogation, which involved a British police officer, was surely to allow the British to use any information that was discovered to request the extradition of Haneef to Britain. As far as we know they have made no such request. If they had thought that there was sufficient evidence to justify such a request, they would have made it, wouldn’t they, the alleged offence having been committed in the British jurisdiction?

Why does all this matter? Is it to protect terrorists? Absolutely not.

It is that, as we have already noted, if we wish to protect our own liberty and freedom we must also protect the rights of our enemies. If we do not we establish a precedent that will come back to bite us. If we do not honour and cherish our own legal values – like justice, due process, habeas corpus and the presumption of innocence – then we practise and invite the practice of oppression in all our lives and we become as oppressive as the regimes and ideologies from which we seek to protect ourselves, using the threat of those odious regimes as an excuse.

If, of course, you were Mick [“Let’s show those drug-running kids some real Indonesian-style ‘Life or Death’ justice”] Keelty and his mates, you might just think that it was a bugger that the law gets in the way of justice. And that’s our system.

And we’ll tell you what. We don’t want Mick Keelty to protect us, or John Howard, or Kevin Andrews.

We want our system, our values and our way of life to protect us.

Thank you for reading this far!  You might think producing a post like this takes a bit of work. 
It does! If you’ve appreciated it you might consider encouraging me. ( We all like validation! )   

Buy Me A Coffee

All posts

Categories

You might also like:

Let Them Eat Yellowcake

Carlo Bonini           STATE OF THE UNION 2003: " Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of Uranium from Africa." Or not ...   Well, as Bill Moyers reminds us, it wasn’t true. It was all a forgery, perpetrated in Rome. And Carlo Bonini, the Italian...

Assessment of Current Australian Politics

  Executive Summary     ir Roger has been absent from his adoring public. He has been busy, of course, and apologises from the bottom of what is left of his heart; from what is left of Australian politics by the Australian politicians who have...

It’s Time, Mick

after Mr FishIt's Time t’s time for Mick Keelty to resign. Or be sacked. Either way, he has to go: A senior counter-terrorism officer with the Australian Federal Police has testified that police were directed to charge “as many...

A Beautiful Thing

US Policy Adviser redefines “Beauty” We have noticed a report that Kenneth Adelman has claimed that what the Coalition has done in Iraq is “a beautiful thing”. And we agree whole-heartedly. It’s a pity so few people now are able to see it this way. It just takes a...

Mothers Delighted at First Bogan PM!

Deffernishun: he Values Australian Dictionary of Slang defines a Bogan as: One who lives elsewhere than, or has interests different from, oneself. Melbournite. Dickhead.” Mothers and farters right around Australia are hailing...

Just a Question

   When menace lurks behind every door    f the Israelis approached civilian craft in international waters with the intention to – and in fact did – board, take control of and then tow, or with armed force cause, those craft to land in an...

Democracy – Dancing for Joy?

  This Still Very Young Child   bout 300 years ago, like a smouldering kapok pillow, a massive revolution began its slow burn. A scientific revolution. A social political revolution led by great minds. Newton, Spinoza, Locke, Voltaire,...

Migently Mountain Manifesto: 1

  S ir Roger is returned from the Mountain with the Migently Mountain Manifesto.Here are Tablets One to Five:    1.  Do what is right.     2.   You are safe. Now, at this instant, you are safe.You are safe, right here, right now. This might allow you to...

(unscheduled interruption)

via GIPHYA Rare and Precious Thing We interrupt this pre-recorded segment to bring you an impromptu message from our sponsor.   ir Roger has been touched by the loyalty of one of his longterm readers and a fellow-blogger to muse on the...

Goldman Sachs: Bloodsucking Vampire Aliens?

Goldman Sachs - covering the face of humanity?   oldman Sachs is furious at what Matt Taibbi has written in Rolling Stone. This is apparently not absolutely fresh news but we heard the magic phrase for the first time this morning. It’s from...

Blameshifting 101

You've got to hand it to our Prime Monitor. He is the absolute guru of blameshifting and that’s something to be proud of. You know, he has a position to maintain, an aura to protect, an air of infallibility to project. We can’t have him looking weak and fallible.  He...

Why the Long Face?

Joining the Elite ow do you think Australia’s economy is going, compared to the rest of the world? Sir Roger wonders because some rainbow-lovers say it’s magnificent and some shrill hurricane chasers say we’re going to hell in a handbasket and doom...

Scott Morrison’s Ghastly Apparition

  Auschwitz in the morning    ir Roger is having a short break from the hard work of watching his serfs tiling the fields, shaving the sheep and milking the bulls or whatever they do. He has tried to fit in some self-improving rest and recreation...

Oh Pastor Ted, What a Jock You Are!

There’s a Lotta Love in This Place   S House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s little girl, Alexandra Pelosi, has made a doco, Friends of God, starring Crystal Methodist, Pastor Ted Haggard, about evangelical christians. And quite an eye-opener it is....

Pigeons on Ice

Get the Flock Out of Here   ears ago (in 2009) Sir Roger reached out to his readers about the standard, weaselly,  platitudes politicians drag out in response to catastrophes.  Now you and Sir Roger both know that he didn't "reach out" at all....

Comfortably Numb

Shit! Shit shit shit shit shit! ir Roger on his way home tonight happened to catch a little Pink Floyd on his mobile-wireless-machine-that-plugs-directly-into-the-ears, what used to be called a “tranny” before that term, too, was hijacked by some...

Sir Roger Gets Ogd

  es. It’s true! After everything he has said, Sir Roger’s scepticism has been swept away by his discovery of a new, an alien, religion. And who would not want to be part of such powerful theatre, such wondrous ceremony, gorgeous ritual and...

Telemarketing Counter-Script

  Now there is a way to get your own back ost people (92% according to one report) perceive commercial telephone calls as a violation of privacy. Have you ever received an unwelcome unsolicited marketing phone call? Have you ever wished you...

Oliver Sacks and “Soul Murder”

 After:  Oliver Sacks  by Luigi Novi  9.13.09 . . . the arms that long for love   ir Roger was listening to the ABC Science Show today. It was Robyn Williams’ homage to Oliver Sacks (Awakenings, The Man Who Thought His Wife Was a Hat, Seeing...

Disaster Capitalism

  In other news… Better the devil you know?   oward’s appeal on 60 Minutes tonight fits right into the well-worn Disaster Strategy.   On the one hand: “you’ve never had it so good” but on the other: “these are savage, uncertain and...

Goldman Sachs: Bloodsucking Vampire Aliens?

Goldman Sachs - covering the face of humanity?   oldman Sachs is furious at what Matt Taibbi has written in Rolling Stone. This is apparently not absolutely fresh news but we heard the magic phrase for the first time this morning. It’s from...

Big Bang Time Free Willy

Watch Time Disappear  When Sir Roger was a young man (yes), his university offered a soft course for the scientifically inquisitive but mathematically challenged called The History and Philosophy of Science. Naturally this was universally and derogatorily referred to...

Three Stooges

Howard's 3 Stooges   redictably enough, the rightwing’s stooges are being wheeled out to divert the taint of almost inevitable defeat away from John Howard. Downer “Larry” Downer is a self-deluding fop and a dandy. He’s a joke. But as long as...

The Ancient Marinara

  He's a Legend, and our friend   e wish he wouldn’t describe himself as “ancient”. That tends to put us at the edge of a category we fiercely resist. Richard Neville, one of the founders of homepagedaily.com, was the infamous, notorious...

Let Them Eat Yellowcake

Carlo Bonini           STATE OF THE UNION 2003: " Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of Uranium from Africa." Or not ...   Well, as Bill Moyers reminds us, it wasn’t true. It was all a forgery, perpetrated in Rome. And Carlo Bonini, the Italian...

Bankruptcy & Lies

Paedophile Bishop of Bruges, Roger Vangheluwe Pope Shocked. Shocked!   wish I had written this, because I agree wholeheartedly with what she says. I wish I had written what she wrote but thank goodness she did. Joan Smith’s whole article in...

Sack Keelty

  Sack the Bastard   …and DIC Senior Management, particularly the Deputy Secretary in charge of borders, compliance, and detention, the avowed expert in the use of the visa as a tool for enforcing (at the time) Liberal Party policy. Yes, it’s our old friend,...

The Real Anarchist

"I'm a Leninist" *   Trump has branded democrats and protestors as terrorists and also as anarchists. And because he likes the wacko Q narrative  - or likes to use it to manipulate his stupid base -  he sees the dark agents of doom in every corner. But...

A Beautiful Thing

US Policy Adviser redefines “Beauty” We have noticed a report that Kenneth Adelman has claimed that what the Coalition has done in Iraq is “a beautiful thing”. And we agree whole-heartedly. It’s a pity so few people now are able to see it this way. It just takes a...

Democracy – Dancing for Joy?

  This Still Very Young Child   bout 300 years ago, like a smouldering kapok pillow, a massive revolution began its slow burn. A scientific revolution. A social political revolution led by great minds. Newton, Spinoza, Locke, Voltaire,...

0 Comments