Pardon Us – We Missed the Logic

by | Jul 17, 2007 | Australian Values, Border Security, Corruption, Democracy, Immigration, Legal, OzPol Values, Values

We’re just a bit confused 

 

Dr Haneef has been charged with recklessly providing resources to a terrorist organisation (to wit, a sim card). The alleged recklessness occurred in the UK. It did not take place in Australia.

There is no suggestion, as far as we can know, that Haneef has broken any law in Australia.

No-one in Britain has yet been found guilty of being a terrorist or part of a “terrorist organisation”.

The British allegations are still ‘allegations’.

The charge against Haneef therefore presumes the British suspects are guilty and that they are, or are part of, a terrorist organisation. 

They may well be, but that is not how the law in both our countries is supposed to work. Australia, in any case, simply cannot, has no authority to, determine the guilt or innocence of a person in a foreign jurisdiction. That is done by courts and juries in the jurisdiction where they are charged. Or can they? It does seem, logically, that they have indeed predetermined that guilt given the charge against Haneef.

This presumption of guilt then would/will prejudice the trial of Haneef’s cousin to whom he gave the sim card. Could Haneef’s cousin conceivably claim the impossibility of a fair trial on the basis of the charges against Haneef?

And what then, or what if the British suspects are simply found not guilty? Haneef could not then be found to have provided resources to a terrorist organisation. (And before you say “that’s not going to happen, of course they are guilty”, remember that you are not entitled to presume that, nor to act on the presumption of guilt.)

The correct course of action after Haneef’s interrogation, which involved a British police officer, was surely to allow the British to use any information that was discovered to request the extradition of Haneef to Britain. As far as we know they have made no such request. If they had thought that there was sufficient evidence to justify such a request, they would have made it, wouldn’t they, the alleged offence having been committed in the British jurisdiction?

Why does all this matter? Is it to protect terrorists? Absolutely not.

It is that, as we have already noted, if we wish to protect our own liberty and freedom we must also protect the rights of our enemies. If we do not we establish a precedent that will come back to bite us. If we do not honour and cherish our own legal values – like justice, due process, habeas corpus and the presumption of innocence – then we practise and invite the practice of oppression in all our lives and we become as oppressive as the regimes and ideologies from which we seek to protect ourselves, using the threat of those odious regimes as an excuse.

If, of course, you were Mick [“Let’s show those drug-running kids some real Indonesian-style ‘Life or Death’ justice”] Keelty and his mates, you might just think that it was a bugger that the law gets in the way of justice. And that’s our system.

And we’ll tell you what. We don’t want Mick Keelty to protect us, or John Howard, or Kevin Andrews.

We want our system, our values and our way of life to protect us.

Thank you for reading this far!  You might think producing a post like this takes a bit of work. 
It does! If you’ve appreciated it you might consider encouraging me. ( We all like validation! )   

Buy Me A Coffee

All posts

Categories

You might also like:

Bundy Rum 2011 NSW Election

  Swine Flu, brought to you by SPAM    t’s all the rage these days. Not so long ago, as we were basking in the great spiritual joy of the Wetchex World Youth Day, we reflected also on the overwhelming success of the then recent Crown Casino...

‘this pathetic bleating for shelter from skepticism’

Atheists need a little woman to calm them down   es, we know it is a bit late in the day to be discovering Pharyngula but we did and there is nothing to be done but fall down and worship. No, we mean sit down and learn. PZ Myers is a prolific,...

Pigeons on Ice

Get the Flock Out of Here   ears ago (in 2009) Sir Roger reached out to his readers about the standard, weaselly,  platitudes politicians drag out in response to catastrophes.  Now you and Sir Roger both know that he didn't "reach out" at all....

Disembowel the Leader

Lord Water Cunntiham in High Spirits!   We have received news from our Dear Leader, Lord Water Cunntiham, that he is in high spirits today. Very high spirits indeed! There is a definite spring in his trackie-suited step today! Yes, girls and boys, the Labor Party...

ANZAC Reflections

  We’re made of “Digger” stuff   M y father was in WWII. He went to Borneo, landed at Balikpapan. Like most of those who went, he didn’t tell us much about the War. But he did tell us one story. They landed on the beach and because he was a Major he had a jeep...

Signed With Their Honour

For ANZAC Day     Two poems about the madness of war: Mental Cases by Wilfred Owen Naming of Parts by Henry Reed  and a poem for the truly great – in our case the diggers: I Think Continually by Stephen Spender. _______________________________    ...

We Are Humbled…

…and yet proud…  o have some of our work considered worthy of inclusion amongst the writings of the doyens of the ozblogosphere in the Top 40 collection at OnlineOpinion. The piece the judges have chosen is “The Nation That Hangs Together”. We have...

Australian Value #1

Values Australia's Aussie Values T-Shirt on display and immortalised in Museums VictoriaEllen Sludge Breaks the Cardinal Law Many moons ago, Sir Roger wrote the First Law of Australian Values.  Australian Value #1:   Politicians do NOT own Australian Values...

The Next Big “Sorry”

Sorry Bastards   ant a long-range heads-up? The question we should be asking Abbott and Gillard and all of their various immigration spokespeople right now is this:   How do you feel about the inevitability that — possibly in your lifetime — a...

Costello and Iran

Peter Costello reaching out to his future subjects Our loyal visitors,   anting to know how to react to Peter Costello’s decision to disappear up his own arse at long last, may have been waiting with bated breath to hear Sir Roger’s wisdom on...

Jefferson Says

  We the People   homas Jefferson was the third President of the United States, a man of the Enlightenment, the principal author of the Declaration of Independence, one of the most influential Founding Fathers, who envisioned America as...

John Howard: Strong or Weak?

Choose Your Favourite War Criminal   hat extraordinary influence our Groveller General enjoys with US President Bush. Mr Howard said he will raise the Hicks issue when he meets the US President George W Bush on Tuesday…Mr Howard says he will...

Clive of Kogarah

Clive James with Bill Moyers   ill Moyers recently hosted Clive James on his show to talk about his new book, Cultural Amnesia: Necessary Memories From History and the Arts (not the 80s punk band). Publishers Weekly  says:...

Oh, no, you bloody don’t!

I'm just a soul whose intentions are good Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood President Bush has admitted to The Times that his gun-slinging rhetoric made the world believe that he was a “guy really anxious for war” in Iraq. In an...

Sir Roger Gets Ogd

  es. It’s true! After everything he has said, Sir Roger’s scepticism has been swept away by his discovery of a new, an alien, religion. And who would not want to be part of such powerful theatre, such wondrous ceremony, gorgeous ritual and...

Anzac Day 2011

  Carnage incomparable, and human squander    On this Anzac Day: f there is one thing that can be said of war it is that it is a massive betrayal of Humanity. It is a monstrous failure of human imagination, vision, ingenuity and intelligence....

Tony Blair: All the Perfumes of Arabia

 Doctor: What is it he does now? Look, how he rubs his hands. Gentlewoman: It is an accustom’d action with him, to seem thus washing his hands. Foul Whisp'rings Are Abroad   S ir Roger has been listening and reading about Celebrity War Criminal Tony Blair’s 720 page...

Dear Bob Correll

  To: Mr Bob Correll, Deputy Secretary Department of Immigration and Censorship   ear Bob, Bob, you aren’t replying to any of my messages. Is everything all right? I thought we had something really special for a while. Bob, you wrote to...

How Australian Values Are Changing

Are Australian Values moving left or right?   The answer is YES - both. And, more worryingly, also a trajectory outside the known political universe towards the delusional realms of a poltical and social Fantasia. And even more upsettingly, otherwise...

The Next Big “Sorry”

Sorry Bastards   ant a long-range heads-up? The question we should be asking Abbott and Gillard and all of their various immigration spokespeople right now is this:   How do you feel about the inevitability that — possibly in your lifetime — a...

Bankruptcy & Lies

Paedophile Bishop of Bruges, Roger Vangheluwe Pope Shocked. Shocked!   wish I had written this, because I agree wholeheartedly with what she says. I wish I had written what she wrote but thank goodness she did. Joan Smith’s whole article in...

Little Britain Lives!

    Contractual Obligation Blog alues Australia was lucky enough to be invited to attend a recent performance of Little Britain Live , at the cost of agreeing to review the performance. Like The Office and Extras it could never be said...

What Science Knows (& Business Ignores)

Tell the boss! Tell the world! Revolution!!!!   wo excellent talks that will give you good feelings and even hope! From the Royal Society of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce The truth about financial incentives: How our human super power can...

Wikileaks Cablegate and Hunter S. Thompson

  unter S. Thompson said it, and he wasn’t a traitor: America…just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to...

Assessment of Current Australian Politics

  Executive Summary     ir Roger has been absent from his adoring public. He has been busy, of course, and apologises from the bottom of what is left of his heart; from what is left of Australian politics by the Australian politicians who have...

John Howard: Strong or Weak?

Choose Your Favourite War Criminal   hat extraordinary influence our Groveller General enjoys with US President Bush. Mr Howard said he will raise the Hicks issue when he meets the US President George W Bush on Tuesday…Mr Howard says he will...

Draft Mateship Guidelines Exhumed

Fair Dinkum Aussie Mateship Cetrificate Test   new Mateship test will ensure Australia strikes the right balance between the British and the rest, says Minister for Aussie Mateship, Smeagol K. Dic. The Ministry today released a draft guide...

The Next Big “Sorry”

Sorry Bastards   ant a long-range heads-up? The question we should be asking Abbott and Gillard and all of their various immigration spokespeople right now is this:   How do you feel about the inevitability that — possibly in your lifetime — a...

M-m-m-My Corona

  What is it With Toilet Paper?   When age can, uninvited, link the distant poppy past of The Knack with the all too adjacent Present and come up with a pun, Sir Roger is delighted that there are others still living who appreciate the troubling incongruity...

Pinter

Study of Pinter by Reginald Gray, 2007Vale! you grumpy old genius 10 October 1930 – 24 December 2008   An enormous loss to literature, the stage, the arts, to humanity and to breaking all the rules. We think the best way we can to express our gratitude and to...

0 Comments